EP 106 & 107: Avoiding Burnout & Sustaining Self-Care with Daniella Wolfe

All right, Daniella, welcome to the Think Happy Podcast. I am so thrilled to have you here. I am so thrilled for this conversation. So let's just start, you know, the usual. Tell us a little bit about yourself, your family, your business, what you do.

Yeah. So, like you said, my name is Daniella Wolf. My business is best d life helping you find the bliss and you're busy. I've been a social worker for 27 years. So I'm clinically trained in all sorts of, you know, counseling strategies, self care, mindfulness, stress management, coping skills, all of that type of stuff as well as I'm a mom to two kids.

And, even though they're older now, definitely have been in that place of running everyone around figuring out what's for dinner that everyone can even agree on and eat, you know, juggling full time job and kids and all that kind of stuff. and yeah, you know, about 1718 years ago I went through a divorce and so I was a single working mom and they were four and six months old at the time and, and definitely was trying to do it all, be it all.

And I found myself in that place of burnout, you know, and learned I needed to start asking for help, taking care of myself, putting, you know, some time aside for me every day. And it's kind of grown from there where people were asking what I was doing, showing me things they were doing because of things I said and realized, I think we're all looking for that validation of permission, you know, to take that time for ourselves.

Yeah. What's so interesting about that? And that was actually something that I wanted to ask you is, you know, how did you find yourself in this position of being this, you know, go go to total guru on time and task management to do lists prioritizing yourself, things like that and what you, your story is quite similar to mine and that it all of a sudden it just was something that I realized people were asking me about, you know, like, how are you doing this?

How are you doing that? Why does it seem like you always have your shit together? And I'm like, well, I don't always have it together, but I can tell you some of the things I do.

so, yeah, like I had a girlfriend send me a picture of her sitting by the water and she's like I decided to take 20 minutes to myself to read instead of running, you know, all the errands in between the kids activities, you know, and just realizing there's, there's different ways, you know, we can go about this. It doesn't have to be, you know, one way.

Exactly. Exactly. It, it makes me think how, and something that I like to talk a lot about is how, you know, we're in the driver's seat of our own life, right? And happiness, freedom of time is not just like sitting there going to come knocking on your door. No, it's sitting there and you have to go out and create it for yourself. You know, it's waiting for you. But we must be proactive about, you know, taking that drive, taking the spot in the driver's seat of our lives and creating that

time and, the, the energy to pour into ourselves sometimes. So, so we obviously are insanely aligned in what we teach. And while I was prepping for this conversation, I was scrolling through your website and something that I really loved is, and this is like one of the first things that I saw is this phrase that's on there that is work, life harmony. Ok. So, is that something that you came up with or that you heard somewhere else where did that come from?

It? It's not original. I'm not sure exactly where I heard it. Sometimes I refer to it as work life flow, which is also a phrase I borrow, you know, work life balance was how I started. And a lot of people, all of a sudden as soon as you said, the word balance would come at you like no, you can't have any balance. And you know, that's the thing is I look at it from the perspective of balance doesn't come from everything being equal, balance comes from your ability to adapt, pivot have

resilience and set some boundaries, you know, and so I'll use whatever phrase is gonna make people happy, but it's about finding that work life kind of again, balance, harmony, flow, that whatever it is that works for you. So and it doesn't mean, you know, some days you might be incredibly work heavy, some days you might be all in on your family and fun and things like that. But looking at over the course of your week, over the course of each day, how do you feel?

Because ultimately, that's what we're going for. That's the goal is what feels good to you where you're not sitting going. You know, I, I regret this. I didn't get this done, you know, and looking back on each day and each week from a happy place of feeling fulfilled is ultimately what we're looking for.

Yeah. And So, so the listeners know, Daniella and I, this is actually our second conversation, the first one we had for first show. Our third. Yes. Yes, it is our third conversation, second being recorded. And I think it was on your show, Daniella where we also talked about this notion of kind of how balance is a, like a little bit of a trigger word for people right now.

And there was something that I was taught or that I heard or I read or something at some point through, you know, the, the marriage preparation classes that Oakley and I had to take, through the church leading up to actually getting married. And that was, that marriage is not 5050 marriage is 101 100. And that notion has carried over for me into so many other areas of my life also.

And it's kind of how I view balance right now. being that, you know, it's nothing is ever going to be totally 5050 or, or a third, a third, a third, you know, nothing like that. As humans, we're fluid and we change and circumstances happen and we have to be able to go with the flow. But to your point of, you know, if we take a step back and look at this for more a bird's eye view, it's coming out in the wash, you know, like we might be in a season where we are really like work heavy and we feel like

we just are super unbalanced. The scale is leaning heavy to work and like, maybe home life just isn't getting as much of you. One thing that we can be certain of is that seasons come and seasons go and that scale will most likely, sway to the other way in the not too distant future. but it's just taking that step back and, you know, balance doesn't have to be perfect and it doesn't have to be a trigger word.

No. And like I said, you know, if you start looking at it as 5050 or things like that, you're gonna start then keeping track, you're keeping count. And like I said, it's all more about the way you feel, you know, and so when you can adapt and pivot, maybe, you know what you thought was gonna be quality time with your kids or with yourself, you can still find that success in that area.

You know, it might be, look different than what you thought. It might be shorter than what you thought. But it's that quality over quantity that's gonna create that feeling in your life.

Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Quality over quantity. 10 out of 10 times always wins. Yeah. So what does harmony or balance or, or whatever word we wanna use? What does that look like in your day to day life? Because I know you still have your kids. You never stop being a mom. your, your podcast is kind of like a side thing that you do because you have your full time job also. So, what does this look like just in your day to day life?

Yeah. And, you know, like you said, there's different seasons. I'm in a season now where my kids are older, they're, you know, one's graduated from college and out of the home, the other one's away at college and, you know, but I have contact with them every single day. And again, it's that quality, you know, I am, my son's call on his ride home every single day from work.

My daughter and I text and talk throughout our day. It's, it's the relation that we have that I find, you know, that, that success and that balance and that love from as well as I love what I'm doing. I love these connections that, you know, I've made like with people like you. And so even spending this time in my business quote, you know, that fills me up and this makes me feel really good too. And so doing things that make you feel good and good about yourself, you know, and I know we'll

talk about that when we talk about self care anymore. Like that's the point, you know, it's about doing all those kind of things and finding the things that make you feel good about your job, about your family, about the relationships that you have even about, you know, the way I do things in my home, I've set up habits and systems that work because things have to get done either way, you know? But to do them in a way that feels good is where I find that balance.

Yeah. Yeah. Ok. This is not really a fair question because I didn't think I was going to ask you this. But since you brought up, like, things that you do around your house habits and systems that's like lights me up and my ears perk up. Can you tell us like, one or two of the habits or systems that you have around your house that, like, work so often for you?

Sure. One of them I started years ago when my kids were here and they were younger is I don't fold anybody's laundry. Oh, that's a basket. It's a basket. I put it from one machine to the other machine to each person's basket. And I don't even, you know, like, I don't, I earn my stuff before I put it away. I, I earn it that morning, you know, and so I've taken what could be a very complicated task and personally, like, I don't feel like laundry is a heavy lift for me because, you know, it takes

me five minutes to put it in the machine and then I'm back doing what I wanted to do, you know? And so I've created a system where everybody has their own responsibility for it and it kind of flows in part of our day. And so that's one of the things that I love as well as, my morning routine is part of one of the habits, you know, that I love because it's like I still

get things done. I get my post done for my job, but I also take care of myself and make some time for myself. I'm trying to think what else. I married a guy who loves to do dishes.

That was a great, my husband does the dishes also.

It's his favorite thing to do.

His dad used to do them. And, you know, again, it's part of one of those things. I read this book called Fair Play by Eve Red. I think it is and she talks about, you know, there's three parts to every task, the, awareness that it needs to happen, the planning and then the execution and the fact that, you know, he covers all three of those parts, not just the execution and the action.

Again, it's mentally off, off my load. I keep a calendar with a lot of reminders so that again, mentally I can offload, having to remember a lot of things because that was really stressful for me and I forget a ton of stuff.

Me too. Oh, my gosh. Every single time we talk there's something else that we have in common. I swear I have the world's worst memory. But, you know, you, you have to adapt, right? And so like my calendar is literally my lifeline. So I personally, I keep two versions of my calendar. one that is in my phone and I choose to use Google calendar.

So I can also have the same one on my computer. But then also my hard copy, which is where I'll, I'll write down like my daily calendar for the day if you will plus my to do list right next to it. And that right now in my stage of life works beautifully.

so because there's definitely something so satisfying about physically crossing things.

I am guilty of adding something to my to do list that I've already done so I can check it off.

And that's, that's a healthy, helpful even to do truly as a therapist in me. Absolutely. Celebrate those wins. And if you get to write it down and cross it, that's the celebration.

Have you ever heard of? I'm sure you're familiar with Gretchen Ruben. she talks about something called a to do list, which is the list of all of the things that you have done instead of. And it's just like a little reframe instead of like looking at the things from your to do list that you did not get a chance to do that day. Choosing to see it as a, to do list of Ta da these are all of the things that I did get done, Which I love and I just think it's such a fun play on words.

Yeah. OK, so gosh, there are so many things that we could dig into right now. One of them I know, I know one of them that I really have been looking forward to talking to you about is burn out. So this episode is being recorded in Q four. It will also air in Q four. which means that many of us are either already burnt out or like feel like we're about to hit, burn out and just

like thinking about it right now is like a little bit making me feel burnt out. So can you talk to us maybe about, you know, some of the common sources of burnout that you see?

Yeah. As well as I wanna talk about even maybe an uncommon one too. I think commonly we can think about, you know, our job, you know, our time being stretched feeling like we're going, you know, have too many things on our to do list. We're going in a million directions and things like that. But one of the things I really like to talk about too is how burn up can come from the things we're passionate about from the things we love, you know, and we don't always think of burn out that way.

We think about the things that we don't like, but if you think about some of the things we love, whether it's our business, our kids, our relationships and things like that, the things that we go all in on that, maybe we kind of toss our boundaries out the window for is another source of burnout. You know, I can remember talking to a new mom and her being like, oh my gosh, you're my first adult conversation and in four days because you go all in, you cut out everything else, the things you

like to do, spending time with other people, things like that, you can do that in a relationship. Sometimes maybe you stop seeing your friends as much because you're with them or your business, you spend hours and hours, but you can put yourself at risk at burnout if you're then imbalance where that's you let go of your boundaries and you're not paying attention to the other areas of your life.

You know, you ride those emotional highs and lows so much more intensely because that's your passion. You know, those are your babies, that kind of a thing as well as it can be very isolating. And so to think about not only the things you dislike that could be causing burnout, but what are you kind of not respecting your boundaries around as a passion that could also be that source.

So something that is like so glaringly obvious to me now that you have said that are times in my life definitely where I have got gotten burnt out from passion, but sometimes how our body also like physically is showing and screaming at us that we are burnt out. And the thing that just keeps coming to my mind is like when you get super into a certain exercise routine or like if you start a new class at a studio that you love or for me, like having trained for multiple half marathons and

full marathons and endurance events, you know, that is why fitness professionals tell you that rest days are just as important as days that, you know, you, you're hitting the gym or, you know, attacking on miles, whatever it might be because your body will physically burn out to the point of, you know, getting injured or, or something like that. and our mind is the same way.

Yeah. Or you hear like, you know, football players that play, do ballet because you need that diversity, you know, from a physical and mental standpoint in order to be kind of well rounded and again balanced to keep using that trigger word.

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I know. That's like the, the word of our conversation.

It's like you, you know, you know, you can't have all cookies, you gotta balance it with salad, but you also should never give up the cookies completely. You know, again, you need to have that moderation across all areas.

Yeah. Yeah. So something, you bringing up the, the new mom who said you were her first adult conversation in like four days and, you know, isolation, I think specifically is something that new moms feel and really just sometimes moms in general honestly. And that brings me to this next question, which is, is there anything in particular that you notice specifically with mothers when it comes to burnout?

Yeah, definitely that isolation, whether it's from, you know, we put our boundaries aside and so we're not making the time to still connect with other people. we're setting expectations that might be unrealistically high. And so, you know, and especially when we're alone and in our own head, we think that's the way it has to be, you know, that's the only way it can be in that type of thing. And so by staying connected, by still doing activities that keep you, you because when you

lose yourself in that again, we feel a little bit more lost because we're like all I am is this person that, you know, gets up, feeds everybody cleans everybody and, and I don't know who I am anymore. So those are some of the things to keep in mind in order to stay grounded and not lose yourself and get burnt out in that.

Yeah. Yeah. That was, you actually teed me up really well for this next question that I had, which was, you know, tips on or suggestions on preventing ourselves from hitting burnout. So in addition to, you know, making sure that we still are finding things that make us us or you, you or me, me. do you have any other suggestions on preventing actually hitting that burnout?

Absolutely. you know, self care is kind of like I was saying to somebody the other day, self care and burnout go together like peanut butter and jelly. Like you, you can't, you know, you need one with the other self care prevents burnout. You know, burnout comes from lack of self care.

They have to go together. And so recognizing you need that just like you need to eat every day, you need to brush your teeth every day. You need self care. And I talk about self care a little bit differently.

I don't know if this is where you wanted to go, but I'm gonna, I'm here for it.

I am here for it.

You know, self care. I love me a bubble bath. Spa day girls get away. But that's not really practical, sustainable self care on a daily basis. Self care is everything from how you eat, sleep dress, decorate and organize your home, move, connect with others. Think about money. I think I should sleep, you know, and as well as the typical personal development, but those are the kind of things that you need to kind of keep as a part of your daily weekly rotation.

You don't have to do everyone every single day. But those are the kind of things that if you imagine going through them almost like a wheel. If one of them out is out of alignment, you're gonna feel that bump, you're gonna feel that pothole every time. And so staying grounded in your self care, having those practices that, you know, you think about when you dress it, it, your confidence comes from that, you know, you feel good about yourself the way you decorate and organize your

home, the decoration, the candles, the colors can be calming. But also that organization of knowing where your keys are every day, knowing where the kids shoes are gonna be, that organization can help keep you saying in the morning when you're trying to get out of the house and things like that, it gives you again that sense of control, which is some of where that comes from too. You know, taking that intention control can be a nasty word sometimes.

So I use intention as well. I mean, that functionality, it's gonna help you prevent that burnout because now you have kind of put the focus back on. Not just one thing is that passion, but it's a balanced boundaries of all these other areas and it keeps you productive. It keeps you creative and it keeps you motivated and that's how we stave off burnout.

Yeah. Yeah. That is really powerful stuff. And, you know, self care is another kind of you know, like trendy word right now if you will. And everyone seems to have an opinion on what it is and what it isn't and something that I really, really like that you just mentioned and I don't even know if you like did this intentionally,

but you kind of divided self care up into these ongoing self-care rituals or routines or habits that we should have versus kind of like the fun cherry on top self care things.

I think that's where it gets a bad rap.

People think it's a luxury where going to get my nails done, getting to walk around target without my kids.

I I do think that if for you listener or whoever you are individually, if something like that does fill your cup, then that gets to be called self care. But that is not something that is realistic for every single day. If for you, it is realistic every single day, more power to you sister. I think for the majority of us it is not and because of that, it all of a sudden now that turns self care into something that we just assume we don't have the time

for or you know, that's too much of a luxury self care costs either too much of my time, too much of my money, too much of my whatever. But it really is so much bigger than that.

Well, and that's why, you know, you look at from those eight different pillars, you can make options in each one. And so it's gonna look different every single day, potentially what's gonna fall under your self care in that way. But, you know, trying to make it just that one special thing, whether it's one, once a week or once a month, that's like eating on a Tuesday and

thinking you're not gonna be hungry by Sunday, you know, you need something sustainable that's gonna keep you filled up emotionally, mentally, physically on a daily basis.

Yeah. Yeah. And it doesn't actually, I'm not going to say that I was going to say it doesn't have to look the same every single day and it doesn't have to look the same in every single season of life because again, I'll say it again as humans, we are fluid, our needs are going to change, our seasons are going to change. and that's ok.

We should actually expect that to happen and it doesn't need to be done alone.

You know, you think about your kids are watching every move that you're making and so to include them to tell them to do it with them. You know, like I've used bubbles as a great opportunity to teach breathing because you can't blow bubbles faster, they pop and you get that, you know, and so to teach them how to slow down their breath.

And so then when they're having a meltdown at the grocery store, you could be like, let's, let's pretend we're blowing bubbles for a minute and you can ground them and, and teach and model for them so that they learn how to take care of themselves.

And that's amazing. That's amazing. So I also really love that. You said self care doesn't have to be, excuse me, something that you do by yourself. What are some of the things that you do in your life that are self care?

I have some girlfriends once a month. We have tickets to our Broadway show kind of thing. Like it's a shades night, we call it and so we go to dinner, we go out so that connection, you know, you're connecting with others, making sure I'm incorporating that. As far as like I said, when my kids were younger, you know, we would do things together.

Laughter is a great form of self care. It connects you to others, you know, doing those types of things, physical activity, going outside for a walk. you know, my husband and I walk the dog every day at some point, you know, those kind of activities. So you're walking, you're in nature. you know, there's so many different ways to incorporate it, catching up with a girlfriend in the car as my phone call is part of my drive or like I said, my son is on his, you know, using those pockets of

time in your day that you could easily be spending on social, social media or scrolling and doing other things and finding ways to do your self care, checking your bank account. I talk about how, you know, money is, how you think about money as a part of your self care. It doesn't mean you have to have money, but at least being aware of where you stand financially, even though it can cause stress for some people.

I think that, acknowledgment of it again, gives you that intention of how would it be proactive and address it? Right? You know, I, I definitely try and take care of my sleep every day. I wish I was an eight hour girl. I'm the goal I'm working towards, but I'm getting there.

I OK, you'll be proud of me, especially with my two littles. I am officially back to 8 to 8.5 hours of sleep.

Oh my God every night.

And that is honestly one of my biggest forms of self care that I can give myself. And, something that I feel really strongly about is that our morning routine does not start when we get out of bed. Rather it starts when we get into bed the night before and set ourselves up to be well rested by the time we wish to get out of bed the next day. And I know we,

as I say, like I know we talked about that even when you were on my podcast you know, that night time and morning routine, which we're both pretty religious about, you know, is definitely something that is woven into my day. And some days it's only 10 minutes, some days it's 20 minutes. But the fact that they both consistently happen every day, those two routines.

Yeah, 100%. I could not agree more. And a lot of the self care things that you mentioned in your life are extremely similar to a lot of the ones that I have in my life. That's why I think my ears perked up when you had said, you know, you, it doesn't have to be something that you do alone because yes, definitely some of the self care things I do in my life are alone.

You know, my morning time, my journaling, things like that, but the majority of my self care and I will say I'm an extrovert and so this won't be the same for everyone. But, you know, having date nights with my husband, hanging out with my girlfriends, group exercise classes, family walks, you know, all of those, fill me up just so much, so much, right?

And I'll even say like I am an introvert. And so I know that's how I recharge, but I still, I enjoy being social. I love being around people.

I just need to go and then, you know, hide for a day or so after that and do a different form of self care.

Exactly. So, ok, specific to the holidays since this conversation is airing, just like, literally Thanksgiving, either like just happened or is about to happen depending on if we're in part one of this episode or part two of this episode when it airs. And that means that, you know, December is just around the corner, but specific to the holidays, do you see self care as being any more, less or of equal importance, any other as compared to any other time of year?

I, I absolutely think the holidays is prime time to make sure that your self care does not get pushed to the bottom of your to do list because, you know, there's always these different hustle, bustle expectations that kind of come up during the holidays, whether you're attending parties, hosting parties, shopping, cooking, eating differently, sleeping, sleeping differently, you know, you might put your workouts off a little bit more.

You know, this is definitely kind of the time of year to make sure that the consistency of that self care stays in place, even if it looks a little different, it's tweaked a little bit, but make sure that you're taking that time for consistent self care in some form every single day is so important. Staying hydrated is extra important during the holidays because you're eating, drinking, sleeping differently.

You wanna make sure you're hydrated as well as acknowledging feelings. You know, I think gratitude is a big part of the holidays. You know, we, that's the we reflect on those things but also just being aware of our feelings because there can also be some disappointment, some anxiety, some grief, some stress. And again, we have these Norman Rockwell expectations sometimes for the perfect holidays, even if we know being with our family might not always be perfect and

acknowledging those feelings, not unpacking and staying there. But at least kind of recognizing like I know this is gonna be hard and planning accordingly for those things, talking to people, putting your supports in place is gonna help you with when it comes to getting through that holiday season.

Yeah. Yeah. And that also makes me think of going into the season with clear boundaries already outlined for you. And you know, if you're going to a plethora of events or family functions or whatever, it might be making, possibly making those boundaries clear ahead of time so that you don't put yourself in a situation where, you know, you feel like you're letting someone down or being tempted to bend on your boundary.

just due to, I don't want to call it peer pressure, but just from pressure that you might feel in them, you might be like, oh, I'll have one more drink, I'll have one more piece of pie, you know, and that's the kind of stuff that, you know, re regret can really do a number on us when it comes to that guilt, the negative thoughts in our heads and all those kind of things.

And so, like you said, it's so important Kaitlyn to have those boundaries and even if you have like a kind of little support network or accountability buddy, when you're at events, like, make sure I'm out by nine o'clock because I gotta go home and go to bed, you know, those kind of things because sometimes we need that little Jiminy cricket in right here to, to get us out the door.

Exactly. Exactly. Something else that I think is so important to think about this time of year is if you are sitting here listening to this conversation and you're like, awesome. You know what, I'm gonna start this self care. It's gonna be my new year resolution and like come January 1st. Here I go. No stop and just start now. Start right now. Yes, please.

So one super, super simple tip that I always love to share and always love to start people with because it is the simplest thing you can do right now as you're listening to this episode is to go into your phone and set a reminder for one minute, five times a day. All right. And so it'll go off at five different times of the day for one minute. Don't go on social media, don't scroll, don't put a load of laundry in, but just sit there for that one minute and breathe.

You can do some box breathing, which is four seconds in four second, hold four second out and another four second, hold, get some water and hydrate. You could do some shoulder shrugs up and down as well as maybe tell yourself a positive affirmation, positive statement. Do a low gratitude. Practice that one minute, five times a day is going to lower your cortisol levels, your stress levels.

You're gonna increase your hydration. Those simple little things done consistently every day will start to have a massive, massive impact. And I'm not even exaggerating. Yeah. And you know, just even the benefit of knowing, I did a five care cell. I, I did a five minute self care practice today. You start to celebrate, you start to build on that and get that momentum going.

You know, your particular activating system gets activated where you start noticing them more positive things, more good things. And this is how you start building and growing a self care practice. And so it starts as simple as a a timer on your phone going off for one minute, five times a day.

I love ending any coaching call that I'm having with action items and listener. This is my action item for you. Go do that, try it and I promise it will become so sticky because as soon as that snowball starts rolling for you, the momentum that you feel the benefits you feel from doing that one minute, five times a day. Practice. You are going to love it. And that ritual, that routine is going to become so sticky because of that.

You can do it in your car, you can do it, you know, wherever you are, you can stop for one minute and find that time and you deserve, you deserve way more than that. But start there and you'll definitely see it grow.

Yeah. Oh This has been so wonderful. OK. My favorite question that I ask every guest who comes on the show is, do you have a life or happiness hack that you use in your own life that the listeners might want to try in their own grace.

I have learned to give myself grace. You know, even like a silly example when it comes to cooking new recipes, we get three tries to get it right. And we started at my attempt at making homemade gnocchi years ago and the first time it dissolved into this like inedible potato soup. Like I don't even know what I did wrong.

You're like, no, I was definitely trying to make potato soup.

No, we pitched it in order. It's about, you know, I took another try and I took another try and as well as it kind of gives us also the out like I gave it three tries and if it still doesn't work, I didn't, you know, I'm not giving up, it's like, all right, this just isn't gonna work for me. But I also give myself the grace that it's not gonna work out perfectly. The first time, I think as we get older, like as kids, you know, they fall off their bikes trying to learn how to ride it, they learn how

to practice sports and instruments and things like that. And we forget when we're adults, it takes practice to actually be able to do something. And so the grace of that imperfection and not being able to do it perfectly. The first time has been so powerful for me to be able to kind of take that burden off, take that negative conversation out of my hand and be like, all right, you know, this is an opportunity to grow. I'm gonna learn and do better the next time.

Yeah, you never have to start back at square one if you choose to view things as, as learning opportunities and, and rooms for growth. Yeah. Oh Amazing. OK. Where can we find you? Where can we connect with? You? Tell us all of the places?

Sure. So my website, there's my podcast is on there. My blogs are on there. I have a free quiz to see if you're on the brink of a burnout. So there as well as I'm on Instagram, linkedin and Facebook at best. The life Best.

Be life. Amazing. Thank you so much for your time. Thank you so much for pouring into us and listeners, Daniella and I have, have you know, peripherally started chatting about some sort of other collaboration, maybe in 2024 because we just cannot get enough of each other. And so stay tuned for that. We don't even know what it is.

But so it might be virtual.

It might be in person. You never know.

Yes, I, I'm gonna vote for in person because you live in Jersey, right?

I live in Buffalo, New York.

So you live in Buffalo even better. I'm coming to you, Buffalo in Texas, right. I don't come to me, don't come to me. It's like awesome. Way too hot here.

Well, we'll have to do a summer thing because in Buffalo I'm not gonna lie. We get blizzards and snow and stuff.

Ok. Fair. Fair.

So summer 2020 four, there we go.

Mark your calendars. Everyone. We're coming for you. All right. My friends, I will be back in your ears next week with another episode of the Think Happy Podcast.